Dr. Paul Conti: Therapy, Treating Trauma & Other Life Challenges
Huberman invites Dr. Paul Conti, an expert psychiatrist, to explore trauma, therapy, and medication. They discuss treatment approaches, choosing therapists, and the effects of antidepressants, ADHD medications, psychedelics, ketamine, and MDMA. This episode is valuable for those in therapy, processing trauma, or considering psychoactive medication, benefiting both patients and practitioners.
Key Takeaways
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Source
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Full Notes
Dr. Paul Conti on Trauma and Therapy
- Trauma: something that overwhelms our coping skills and leaves us different as we move forward
- Changes the way our brains function
- Evident in mood, anxiety, behavior, sleep, and physical health
- Identifying trauma:
- Can be difficult due to the reflex of guilt and shame around the trauma
- Often leads to burying or avoiding the traumatic experience
- Importance of understanding trauma:
- Helps identify changes in brain function and behavior
- Allows for healing and growth from difficult circumstances
- Therapy process:
- Involves picking a therapist, evaluating the relationship, and determining if therapy is working
- Self-therapies can be helpful for those without access to professional therapy
- Drug therapies:
- Antidepressants, antipsychotics, alcohol, cannabis, ketamine, psychedelics (psilocybin, LSD), and clinical use of MDMA
- Future of drug therapies in treating trauma and mental health disorders
Trauma and Its Effects
- Trauma can lead to guilt, shame, and avoidance
- People avoid looking at the change in themselves, which is the opposite of what needs to be done
- Communication and putting words to the experience is crucial for healing
- Trauma can be acute or chronic, and can result from various situations
- Can lead to changes in self-talk, thoughts about the world, and ability to navigate safely
Guilt and Shame
- Guilt and shame are aroused affects, meaning they are created in us without our choice
- Powerful emotions that can control behavior
- Evolutionarily adaptive for survival, but maladaptive in the modern world
- Traumatic experiences and negative emotions were important for survival and learning
- In the modern world, these emotions can lead to negative outcomes and suffering
Trauma and Addiction
- Majority of addiction seen in clinical practice arises from trauma
- People try to soothe the pain inside with drugs or medications
- Can quickly turn into addiction, danger, and risk
Repetition Compulsion
- Freudian concept where people repeat behaviors to continue trying to stuff away traumatic experiences
- Instead of acknowledging and distancing from the trauma, people feel shame and guilt and try to suppress it
- This ongoing effort can lead to negative outcomes and suffering
Repetition Compulsion and Trauma
- Repetition compulsion: people return to scenarios or emotional states resembling their trauma
- Attempt to solve or resolve their traumas
- The limbic system (emotion system) trumps logic
- Doesn’t care about time, focused on relieving suffering from trauma
- People try to recreate traumatic situations to “make things right”
- Belief that fixing the situation now will also fix the past
- Addressing the original trauma can help break the cycle of repetition compulsion
- Therapy can help bring the trauma to the surface and take away its power
Changing the Past and Dealing with Arousal
- Many behaviors and thoughts are attempts to change the past
- Can lead to maladaptive behaviors and thought patterns
- Dealing with arousal from trauma:
- Catharsis: telling the story and feeling the emotions
- Packing it down: suppressing the emotions (not ideal)
- Confronting the trauma: looking directly at the source of the emotions
- Dealing with trauma can be done with a professional, trusted friend, or through writing
- The goal is to explore the trauma and understand its impact on the present
- Facing the trauma can lead to healing and breaking the cycle of repetition compulsion
Discussing Trauma and Healing
- People often fear discussing their trauma, worried about others recoiling from them
- When someone listens without recoiling, it can be a relief and help the healing process
- Trauma can create a sense of shame and guilt, making it difficult to process and heal
- Discussing the trauma can help shift the perspective and bring compassion towards oneself
- Repetition compulsion: the tendency to repeat traumatic experiences in an attempt to resolve them
- This can be maladaptive and counterproductive to healing
Approaching Trauma and Healing
- Introspection and observing one’s thoughts and emotions can be helpful
- Writing or talking to a trusted friend, family member, or clergy can also be beneficial
- Understanding the origins of negative self-talk and emotions can help unravel the trauma
- Sometimes professional help is necessary to address significant symptoms and get to the root of the trauma
- If professional help is not available, other strategies can be employed to address trauma and promote healing
Addressing Trauma and Negative Thoughts
- If professional help is not available, other strategies can be employed to address trauma and promote healing
- People often have unresolved trauma that leads to mental health issues and substance abuse
- Taking a trauma history can reveal the root cause of these issues
- Negative fantasies can serve three purposes:
- Punishment — guilt and shame from trauma lead to self-punishment
- Avoidance — anger and negative thoughts can distract from more painful emotions
- Control — imagining worst outcomes can give a sense of control and preparedness
- These negative thoughts can provide short-term relief but do not lead to long-term improvement
Self-Help Strategies for Trauma
- Journaling can be a helpful tool for processing trauma
- Provides distance and perspective on thoughts and emotions
- Can help integrate compassion and logic
- The key is to approach oneself with curiosity and a desire to understand the root of negative thoughts
- Trusted friends or support groups can also provide an outside perspective
Finding a Good Therapist
- A skilled clinician can help navigate through trauma and provide guidance
- When seeking therapy, consider factors such as:
- Accessibility (remote therapy options)
- Experience and expertise in trauma therapy
- Personal rapport and trust with the therapist
Trauma and Therapy
- Trauma often hides itself in various symptoms like depression, panic attacks, addiction, and maladaptive choices
- Addressing trauma requires a new perspective and finding the right therapist
Importance of Rapport in Therapy
- Rapport is the key factor in finding a good therapist
- Trust, attention, and a genuine connection are essential for effective therapy
- Good therapists are not pigeonholed by a certain modality; they adapt to the patient’s needs
Finding the Right Therapist
- Word of mouth is important; recommendations from trusted individuals can be helpful
- Try a few therapists and have a session or two to see if rapport develops
- Approach therapy with the understanding that it may be difficult and challenging, but ultimately helpful
- Look for a therapist who is attentive, adaptable, and genuinely invested in your well-being
Mechanics of Therapy - Showing up to therapy
- Varies by person
- Goal: be fully present during therapy
- Some people meditate before, others just show up
- Post-therapy processing
- Also varies by person
- Some people need to reflect immediately, others need to set it aside and come back later
- Frequency of therapy
- Depends on individual needs and circumstances
- Minimum once a week for an hour if working on specific issues
- More intensive work can be beneficial for some
- Intensive therapy (30 hours in a week)
- Usually for people in crisis or highly distressed
- Can be very effective in a short period of time
- Taking ownership of therapy
- Important for clients to communicate their needs and feelings with their therapist
- If therapy isn’t helping, consider changing approach or frequency
- Self-generated intensive therapy (journaling, walking, etc.)
- Could be helpful for some, but depends on the person
- Important to communicate with a trusted person if possible
Prescription Drugs in Mental Health Treatment
- Overutilization of medicines in the US due to healthcare system focused on throughput
- Medicines often used as an endpoint rather than a tool to support therapy
- Diagnosis and level of severity are important factors in deciding medication use
- Medicines can help improve distress tolerance and reduce rumination, aiding in therapy
- Shortcomings in the healthcare system lead to overuse of medications and less focus on the root problems
- Short-term vs. long-term use of drugs: some medications can be helpful in the short term to increase distress tolerance while working through therapy
Challenges in the Healthcare System
- 15-minute visits with psychiatrists often not enough time to address root problems
- Focus on short-term symptom relief rather than long-term health
- Need for more investment in human aspects of mental health care
- Overuse of medications due to systemic reasons and categorization issues
- Multiple medications often prescribed to treat various symptoms, leading to side effects and complications
Potential Benefits of Medication in Therapy
- Can help ease symptoms and improve distress tolerance, allowing for more productive therapy sessions
- Can be used in conjunction with therapy for conditions like OCD and bipolar disorder
- Short-term use of medication can provide support while working through difficult issues in therapy
Short-term Use of Medication - Can be effective in certain situations
- American medicine better at starting medications than taking them away
- Pharmaceutical industry’s strong presence influences this
- Medications should be seen as tools, not fixes or substitutes for human-to-human work
ADHD Medication
- Can be extremely effective for those with ADHD
- Increases dopaminergic transmission and adrenaline in the brain
- Stimulants generally well-tolerated by those with ADHD
- Attention deficit can come from many sources, not just ADHD (e.g., anxiety, depression, poor sleep, stress, trauma)
- Overdiagnosis of ADHD leads to inappropriate use of stimulants
Negative Effects of Stimulants
- Prioritizing short-term benefits over solving long-term problems
- Risks include judgment impairment, heightened anxiety, impulsivity, and, in rare cases, psychosis
- Stimulants can change the brain without the user realizing it, leading to negative consequences in decision-making and relationships
Cannabis for Anxiety Management, Depression, and ADHD - Alcohol is not a good coping mechanism
- Cannabis can narrow attentional perspective
- Can help people be present and gate out intrusive thoughts
- Can be helpful for sleep
- However, at higher levels of distress, cannabis can narrow focus on negative thoughts
- Cannabis is safer than alcohol, but not uniformly safe
Psychedelics for Therapeutic Potential
- Psilocybin and LSD are true psychedelics
- Powerful positive data from labs and academic centers
- Used in professional hands and with proper guidance, can have immense positive impact
- Oregon moving towards legalization of psilocybin in 2023
- Psychedelics may reduce communication in outer parts of the cortex
- Outer cortex is focused on survival (language, vision, executive function)
- Psychedelics may take us out of the cortex and into deeper parts of the brain
- This may help us connect with our true humanness and reduce distress
Note: The discussion of psychedelics is within the context of legal clinical settings and ongoing research.
Psychedelics and Therapy
- Psychedelics can help people see traumatic events with clarity and compassion for themselves
- Release guilt and shame
- Catalyze therapeutic process by accessing deep parts of the brain
- Hallucinations may have metaphorical or symbolic value
- Can lead to understanding of truth and personal growth
- MDMA (different from classic psychedelics) floods the brain with positive neurotransmitters
- Creates a greater permissiveness to approach and process trauma
- Allows for thinking about trauma without fear, guilt, or shame
Sentience and Humanity
- Sentience is extremely important and often undervalued
- Psychedelics may help us understand and value sentience in humans and animals
- Overvaluing language and undervaluing sentience can lead to ignoring the suffering of animals
Personal Experience with MDMA
- Profound, beneficial, and different experiences in each session
- Increases dopaminergic and serotonergic transmission in the brain
- Creates a pursuit of inner landscape and self-exploration
- MDMA may be particularly beneficial for trauma therapy
- Allows for processing trauma without fear, guilt, or shame
The Power and Importance of Language
- Allows for processing trauma without fear, guilt, or shame
- Language can be both helpful and harmful
- Over control of language can be detrimental, but specificity is important
- Defining terms like trauma is crucial for clear communication
- Trauma: something that overwhelms our coping skills and changes us
- Social media can amplify harmful language and hate
- Can lead to increased vulnerability and fear
- Civility and decorum in discourse have diminished
- Need for rational use of language and setting societal standards
- Rejecting those in power who use denigrating language
- Avoiding divisions and promoting unity
- Addressing issues like white supremacy and hate-motivated actions
Taking Care of Oneself
- Taking care of oneself is a deep and powerful concept
- Important for everyone, regardless of trauma or mental health status
- Involves addressing basic needs and self-care practices
- Basic self-care practices:
- Sleep
- Diet
- Exercise
- Social interactions
- Living circumstances
- Leisure activities
- Sunlight exposure
- Importance of addressing why we might ignore self-care
- Trauma-driven or automatic behaviors
- Sense of power tied to not taking care of ourselves
- Need to reevaluate and prioritize self-care for overall well-being
Dr. Paul Conti’s Work and Book
- Dr. Conti runs a robust clinical practice focused on trauma and mental health
- Author of “Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic — How Trauma Works and How We Can Heal From It”
- Definitive book on trauma
- Offers insights and tools for healing from trauma
- Website: pacificpremiergroup.com
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