Michael Gershon: The Gut-Brain connection
Attia hosts Mike Gershon, a Columbia University professor, discussing the intricate communication between the gut and the brain. They delve into topics such as satiety signaling, the effects of antidepressants on digestion, antibiotics, “leaky gut,” gut microbiome tests, and the impact of diet and probiotics on gut health.
Key Takeaways
High level takeaways from the episode.
Source
We recommend using this distillation as a supplemental resource to the source material.
Full Notes
Gut Anatomy and Blood Supply
- The gut is divided into three parts: foregut, midgut, and hindgut
- Foregut: first part of the small intestine, lungs, pharynx, pancreas, gallbladder
- Midgut: majority of the small intestine, first part of the large intestine
- Hindgut: end of the large intestine
- Blood supply to the gut comes from three vessels off the aorta: celiac artery, superior mesenteric artery, and inferior mesenteric artery
- Celiac artery supplies the foregut
- Superior mesenteric artery supplies the midgut
- Inferior mesenteric artery supplies the hindgut
- The liver receives blood from the gut through a portal system, allowing it to process nutrients absorbed by the gut
Gut Nervous System
- The gut has its own intrinsic nervous system, called the enteric nervous system or “second brain”
- Can function independently of the central nervous system (CNS)
- Present in all vertebrates, with complexity increasing as vertebrates become more complex
- Two major parts of the enteric nervous system: submucosal plexus and myenteric plexus
- Submucosal plexus: located in the dense layer of connective tissue beneath the mucosa
- Myenteric plexus: located between the two layers of smooth muscle (circular and longitudinal) on the outside of the gut
- The enteric nervous system communicates with the CNS, with the brain acting like a CEO giving general commands while the gut controls the details of its behavior
Gut Layers and Epithelial Turnover
- From the inside out, the layers of the gut are:
- Mucosa: lining of the gut, including the epithelium and a loose nervous system called the lamina propria
- Submucosa: dense layer of connective tissue
- Circular layer of smooth muscle
- Longitudinal layer of smooth muscle
- Thin epithelial layer if in the peritoneal cavity
-
Epithelial cells in the gut have a turnover rate of about once a week, with variation depending on the type of cell
Gut Innervation and Pain - Gut experiences pain primarily in response to dilation or pressure
- Cutting inside the gut does not cause pain
- Pain fibers located in dorsal root ganglia, relay signal to the brain via spinal cord
- Vagus nerve carries some pain information, but mostly homeostasis signals
- CNS can affect gut function, e.g., anxiety-induced diarrhea or travel-induced constipation
- Sympathetic nerves can slow gut function in response to fright
CNS Communication with the Gut
- CNS communicates with the gut via sympathetic and parasympathetic nerves
- Acetylcholine involved in communication
- Gut receives message from CNS and responds accordingly, e.g., rapid peristalsis and less absorption in anxiety-induced diarrhea
- Enteric nervous system functions in response to CNS input
- Command neurons in the gut receive input from CNS and start reflexes
- Intrinsic nerve cells in the gut outnumber extrinsic nerve cells by three orders of magnitude
- Gut has various behaviors, not just constant propulsion
Gut Function and Appetite Regulation
- Gut has various behaviors: propelling, mixing, and cleaning
- Mixing allows enzymes to digest food effectively
- Cleaning process occurs during sleep, clearing out larger particles
Appetite Regulation
- Mechanical and chemical factors affect appetite
- Distension of the stomach and rise of blood glucose levels contribute to satiety
- Gut hormones like cholesystechinan and leptin signal to the brain to regulate appetite
- Ghrelin is a gut hormone that promotes appetite, secreted at a constant rate and can be upregulated or downregulated
Gastric Bypass Surgery
- Reroutes the upper GI tract, triggering satiety signals sooner
- Can be effective for treating obesity and type 2 diabetes
- High-calorie liquids can still be consumed, bypassing the surgery’s effects
Neurodegenerative Diseases and the Gut
- Connection between CNS diseases and the gut has been studied for around 30 years
- Varicella Zoster virus (chickenpox and shingles) can infect the gut, causing serious complications
- The virus remains latent in the body after chickenpox and can reactivate as shingles later in life
Chickenpox and Varicella Zoster Virus - Chickenpox virus remains latent in nerve cells for life
- Reactivation causes shingles, a painful rash
- 15% of people develop postherpetic neuralgia (PHN), persistent pain for years
- Immune system can’t eradicate the virus when it’s in nerve cells
- Virus is sequestered and not expressed on the surface of nerve cells
Autism and Gastrointestinal Issues
- Autism severity correlates with increased prevalence of gastrointestinal issues
- Constipation, diarrhea, food sensitivities, and allergies
- Autism likely involves synaptic transmission in the central nervous system (CNS) and enteric nervous system
- No regularity to symptoms, difficult to document rigorously
- Andrew Wakefield’s discredited theory:
- Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine caused gut defects
- Gluten consumption led to absorption of opiate-like substances, causing autism
- This theory has been debunked and discredited
Serotonin and Autism
- Serotonin levels are higher in a subset of kids with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)
- Serotonin is a neurotransmitter and endocrine substance in the gut
- 95% of the body’s serotonin is made in the gut, while the brain produces about 2–3%
- Serotonin is important in feeling pain in the gut, triggering nausea, and as a growth factor during development
SSRIs and the Gut
- SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) are used to treat depression and anxiety
- SSRIs can cause nausea and change gut motility
- SSRIs given during pregnancy can lead to an abnormal nervous system in the offspring
- There is evidence that conditions like irritable bowel syndrome are increased in offspring of mothers treated with SSRIs during pregnancy
Leaky Gut
- Tight junctions are connections between epithelial cells that prevent material from passing through the channel between two cells
- Leaky gut occurs when tight junctions are compromised, allowing material from the lumen to enter the body and vice versa
- The most common cause of leaky gut is allergy, where the immune system reacts and causes tight junctions to open
- If the gut lining is wounded, adjacent cells can crawl over the space and cut it off
Gut Health Assessment
-
If someone has a substantially leaky gut, it can be detected by determining the serum protein albumin; if the gut is leaking, albumin will be low
Leaky Gut and Autism Spectrum Disorder - Leaky gut is a controversial topic
- Some believe it allows toxins and microorganisms to enter the body
- No clear evidence that leaky gut is related to autism spectrum disorder (ASD)
- ASD is a disorder of the nervous system
- Gut problems in ASD are related to serotonin and the ability of serotonin to act as a growth factor
- Deficiency in numbers of neuro cells in the bowel
Bacteria in the Gut
- Bacteria in the gut are mostly anaerobes (live in the absence of oxygen)
- Hard to culture, making them difficult to study
- Bacteria in the colon:
- Produce short-chain fatty acids, which are absorbed by the lining of the colon
- Make certain vitamins, like vitamin K
- Regulate mood and obesity
- Bacteria in the gut can interact with the nervous system
- Activate lining epithelial cells to release serotonin or other chemicals
- Signal through the vagus nerves to the brain
- Chemical products from bacteria can trigger nerve signals or affect the brain through the blood-brain barrier
Germ-Free Mice
- Germ-free (notobiotic) mice are bred without any contact with organisms
- Allows for studying the effects of bacteria on the gut and nervous system
Germ-Free Animals and Gut Microbiome
- Allows for studying the effects of bacteria on the gut and nervous system
- Germ-free animals are born via Caesarean section, fed sterile food, and live in incubators
- After one year, germ-free animals have more primitive gut systems, fewer nerve cells, and almost no immune system
- Bacteria in the gut can determine obesity or lack thereof in mice
- Fecal transplants from lean to obese individuals have been done, but not under controlled settings
- Antibiotics can have a major effect on the human microbiome, altering gut bacteria
Fecal Transplants and Risks
- Fecal transplants are used to treat C. difficile infections
- Procedure involves transferring fecal matter from a healthy donor to the patient’s gut
- Risks include potential transfer of harmful bacteria or organisms
- Synthetic biology could potentially create microorganisms for controlled transplants, but currently limited by the inability to grow and maintain these organisms in vitro
Commercial Home Kits for Gut Microbiome Analysis
- Home kits provide information on the classes of organisms and their proportions in the gut
- Current resolution is too low to provide actionable information
- Cologuard is a more accurate test that looks for genetic signatures of GI cancers in stool samples
Probiotics and the Gastrointestinal System - Probiotics are live bacteria that provide health benefits when consumed
- The FTC regulates claims made for probiotic products
- Companies must demonstrate evidence that their product does what they claim
- Probiotics can help restore the GI system after antibiotics
- Lactobacillus and Saccharomyces are examples of probiotics that colonize the GI tract
- Probiotics do not necessarily need to be refrigerated
- Depends on the specific probiotic and its formulation
- Bioengineering could potentially improve the growth and effectiveness of probiotics in the future
The Human Gastrointestinal System
- Unique embryology and innervation
- Cohabitation with bacteria that outnumber human cells
- Still considered a “black box” in terms of understanding and research
- Ongoing research and advancements in understanding the GI system and its interactions with bacteria and probiotics
Support the Podcast
Weekly Newsletter
- Weekly emails on the latest strategies and tactics for increasing your lifespan, healthspan, and well-being
- peterattiamd.com/newsletter
Peter Attia Membership
- peterattiamd.com/subscribe
- Member’s only Ask-Me-Anything Podcasts
- The Qualys, Members-Only podcasts
- Exclusive discount codes for products Attia believes in
Peter Attia Social Media